[addendum, 2024: I'm adding a small further bit of defense for my theory below]
A casual listen to Garcia & Saunders at the Great American Music Hall on 2/5/74, to double-check a comment about a mystery guest saxophonist, yielded (of course) a scad of observations that are not quite as coherently unified as I would like. But such is the practice of observation, I guess.
 |
| 2/5/74, courtesy gdsets |
The recording of this show:
This show (and its neighbor, 2/9/74 at the Rheem Theatre in Moraga, CA) are unusual for being recorded a by taper, Ed Perlstein, who was able to connect his deck to a feed from the soundboard. He got unplugged at the Rheem, but taped the full show on 2/5. One drawback of a straight sbd feed is that it's not meant to be heard in isolation, i.e. at home (which is no fault of Mr. Perlstein's, of course): it's a mix for the room that is supplementing the sound coming from the band's gear onstage, so we get very prominent vocals, kickdrum, and saxophone, a little bit of everything else, and less electric guitar, since Garcia's amps tended to be really loud. At times, his guitar is almost inaudible on this tape, which is not a point in its favor. The 2/9/74 tape doesn't suffer from this as badly, but it was also a bigger venue (it held 1000; the GAMH held less than half that, see below).The show itself:
is enjoyable, but not one for the ages. To my ears, 1/17/74 at the Keystone is the one great performance from the first half of the year (which got better as it progressed: see the 6/4-6/6 shows, much of August, and Paul Humphrey's run in October-November). 2/5/74 sounds like it was a fun old night at the office for the band, who play nothing wildly inspired, but are in a nice, loose, happy groove. I am pretty sure that Billy Kreutzmann is on drums, and he gives everything an ideal swing and pop -- it's always worth highlighting what a great drummer he is, even if he rarely stands out like Paul Humphrey or even Ron Tutt would have. But check his work on Someday Baby, Roadrunner, It's Too Late: all meat 'n potatoes rhythm & blues, but Billy K puts 'em all right where they should be. In terms of highlights from Garcia, though, there's not a lot that stands out to my ear. Tunes that blossomed into more extended vehicles elsewhere are relatively restrained here: La-La, My Problems Got Problems, Wondering Why, Are You Lonely For Me, and so on. My favorite "jam" here is My Funny Valentine, stretching past 20 minutes and worth every second.Martin Fierro and the mystery saxophone:
Maybe it's my imagination, but Fierro seems to be given more of the spotlight early in the night: he gets the first solo on the first song, Someday Baby (nice touch to hear Garcia call out "Martin!"), and follows it with La-La, his own composition. One big mystery of this show -- the reason, actually, that I revisited it -- is that a second saxophone is audible for almost the entire second set, starting at the end of The Harder They Come. A few mystery trumpet players notwithstanding, I think there is only one other recording of a guest saxophonist from this period: 9/2/74, a baritone sax which might be Snookie Flowers. What stands out about 2/5 is that this second saxophone doesn't take a single solo, as far as I can tell. Nearly everything he(?) plays are simple unison lines with Fierro, with pretty close harmonies. At no point does this second saxophone seem to do anything other than mirror what Fierro is doing: there are some very brief moments in My Funny Valentine and Are You Lonely For Me where the two horns are playing lines that are independent, but otherwise they are in lock-step with each other. The only times that the second sax disappears is during Wondering Why -- where Fierro plays flute -- or when Fierro is taking a proper sax solo of his own (e.g. Think).
So, I wonder, is this actually a second horn player, or is it all Fierro? It's not an electronic harmony effect (those exist now, but I don't know if they did in 1974, and Fierro doesn't seem to have used any electronic attachments until later that summer, anyway). Could he have been playing two horns at once, a la Rahsaan Roland Kirk? In jazz, that technique is associated almost exclusively with Kirk (who could do it with three), and although many surely dismissed it as a gimmick, it was nevertheless done. To my knowledge, George Braith was Kirk's only contemporary who regularly used the technique on his recordings, but search Youtube for "two saxophones at once" to see more contemporary examples. Here is Jeff Coffin (of Bela Fleck & the Flecktones and the Dave Matthews Band) demonstrating how it's done (start at 4:30).
Granted, if this is the case, this would be the only Garcia/Saunders recording where he does this, which would also be pretty strange. But is it as strange as a second saxophonist playing nearly perfect unison parts with Fierro all night -- but never taking a single solo break -- for just this one performance? Nothing that both horns plays is in any way complex, mostly just little accompaniment riffs, but it seems far too tight to be just an off-the-cuff guest appearance, and I can't imagine that Fierro and another player would have rehearsed for this. I can far more easily imagine Fierro playing two horns, then never doing it again after a single raised eyebrow from Garcia, or simply because it was a pain in the ass.
Any thoughts?
[edit: I posted more evidence in the comments. I'm not going to re-edit this post, though, so see below if you're still not buying it]
[addendum Nov 2024; this occurred to me out of the blue today and I wanted to add it here rather than tuck it away down in the comments]
Further thoughts on why Fierro might have done this just once at this one particular show: consider the sense of occasion. As outlined below, this show established the GAMH as Garcia's San Francisco room of choice for the next year-and-a-half. I wonder if it also wasn't something of a debut for Fierro? Granted, he'd already been playing with the band in a more casual capacity -- he plays on 7/19/73 and 10/2/73 (Winterland) which were both unusual shows with added musical guests; he's on two of the four circulating Keystone shows from Oct-Nov 73 -- but there are plenty more known G/S shows with no tape/setlist, so we don't know how regularly Fierro was present. On the next available tape, 1/17/74 Keystone, someone in the crowd asks who the sax player is and Garcia introduces him by name. So it seems safe to assume he may not have been established as a band member yet (or maybe he was and that's just some doof asking what many people already knew?). So now, on 2/5/74, the band is playing a bigger, fancier space than the Keystone, right in the heart of San Francisco. Maybe no one says so, but maybe the feeling is that something a little special is happening, for Fierro at least. As I said above, Fierro seems to be given more of the
spotlight early in the night (Garcia calling him out name as he plays the first solo of the night, then playing his own tune next). Maybe Fierro figures he'll mark the occasion by trying something a little extra, maybe a tip of the hat to the room's jazz pedigree, and he does the two-horns-at-once thing. I dunno. That seems like a thin argument, but it does get at the "why this show and not any other show?" question.
Garcia at the Great American Music Hall:
 |
| courtesy gdsets; not much rock & roll! |
7/19/73 (Thurs) - the first circulating recording of G/S with Martin Fierro; Fierro said that he first played with Garcia at the Matrix with Howard Wales, but afaik no other evidence exists of that. [partial sbd tape]
2/5/74 (Tues) [sbd tape]
2/12/74 (Tues) [uncirculating Bettyboard, partial?]
3/2/74 (Sat)
3/10/74 (Sun) - David Grisman, Richard Greene & Vassar Clements, with Garcia as guest (no tape); see jgmf
5/2/74 (Thurs)
5/20/74 (Thurs) [uncirculating Bettyboard]
7/23/74 (Tues)
8/7/74 (Weds)
8/15/74 (Thurs) [aud tape]
8/24/74 (Sat) [sbd tape]
8/28/74 (Weds) [8 tunes released on the "9/1/74" Pure Jerry set; see jgmf]
10/6/74 (Sun) - with Jim Nelson, drums [partial sbd tape]
10/30/74 (Weds)
11/28/74 (Thurs) [sbd tape]
12/16/74 (Mon)
2/27,28/75 (Thurs, Fri) - the first time billed as the Legion of Mary? [2/28 partial sbd tape]
5/15/75 (Thurs) [aud tape]
6/18/75 (Fri) - billed as Garcia/Saunders, not Legion of Mary. fwiw, I am confident that the tape circulating with this date is actually an aud of 7/4/75.
7/4,5/75 (Fri, Sat) [7/4 sbd tape] (ahem)
7/30/75 (Weds) - maybe? as per jgmf
8/13/75 (Weds) - aka the GD's One From the Vault; see Lost Live Dead
8/20,21/75 (Weds, Thurs) - advertised as the Jerry Garcia Band, actually Keith & Donna Band with Jerry as guest [8/20 partial sbd & aud tape]
 |
| unknown (blues?) band, courtesy GAMH via 7x7 |
Could it be a delay in the sax mic that is subsequently being picked up by a different mic? I’m this scenario the delay would go through the PA and then could be picked up inadvertently by a vocal mic. In a quiet song (La-La) it would be less likely that a delay effect would be used. This could result in the sound you are hearing. A
ReplyDeleteThat hadn't occurred to me, but I am pretty sure it's not anything like that (and I've never heard that effect present on any other sbd tape of this band). By "unison" I meant that the two horns are playing simultaneously, but playing distinctly separate notes -- usually they are playing the exact same line in a pretty close harmony (I'm not good enough to identify the interval by ear: a third? a fifth?). I am reasonably sure there are two different saxophones being played during the second set.
DeleteHow about the The Stuart Little bands flute player? He was music college trained and might be good enough to pick up the sax and play harmony but not as comfortable playing a solo.
ReplyDeleteThat's a great point, David. I finally got around to listening to some of the Stuart Little Band (they have an album at cdbaby) and you are right: the flute player (who also plays sax) is an obvious candidate and definitely could have sat in with G/S and done just fine. But would he have played impromptu yet lock-step lines with Fierro, not taken a single solo (he takes plenty with the SLB), and vanished only when Fierro switched to flute? That all seems pretty weird to me.
DeleteThis is so fascinating. I will try to ask some folks. In the meantime, you say of 6/18/75 "I think that the tape circulating with this date is actually an aud of 7/4/75" - really? That sounds worth checking out.
ReplyDeleteYes, I am pretty confident that Gene Taback's "6/18/75" tape [https://etreedb.org/shn/88823] is the same show as 7/4/75. It's a different aud recording than the Reinhart Hohlwein (MOTB) 7/4/75 source. Taback's tape runs a little fast, so it's harder to line them up to do a casual A/B comparison -- but if you compare some of the licks (and mistakes) that Jerry and Martin play in Melody, Tough Mama, and Every Word You Say, you'll hear they are identical.
DeleteOK, I conclude that there are two saxophonists who are just really well sync'd up. Martin did a fair bit of studio work, with the Sahm guys, in the Bloomfield orbit, even in Saunder's Heavy Turbulence world, and beyond. There are lots of guys running around the Bay Area that he has experience playing with. And the parts that sound doubled really aren't the hard or sophisticated parts - it's mostly pretty straight melody lines, stuff that sounds relatively easy (to my totally unknowledgeable ears) to line up, tightly. So, yes, while it seems impossible that a one-off could be so sync'd, but I do think that is what is happening here.
ReplyDeleteI hear the second sax pretty much throughout set II (everything but Wondering Why). Here are some time-stamps where I think I hear the two saxes diverging in a way that would puzzle me if it was one guy blowing, other saxy observations, from shnid-32088.
HTC second saxophonist first appearance 10:35ff. @ 10:42, the lower one is running a more continuous note while the higher one plays more staccato. Same thing @ 11:25 ish. Very late 13, deviate. Again audible 14 min range. @ 14:49 sounds like a different line.
Think twin saxophones continue @ start, but by 3:45 turn there is only one. Not sure this sounds like Martin, but could certainly be overthinking things. Another sax turn @ 5 and forward. @ 7:49 they clearly play different lines. Again @ end, 9:18.
MT this second sax sounds like bari sometimes?
MFV second sax audible again late 12. Some slight deviations right around 13:50. Two horns playing separate lines 18:05, one of them quotes Greensleeves. Different lines again 22:18, 22:30.
AYLFM I hear the two saxes come apart @ 6:22, through 6:52, a few times. 9:55 bari and other one, separate lines.
HSII separate sax lines @ 0:53 and shortly after.
@JGMF, thank you for taking a close listen to this and for being so specific about the times! I am sorry it took me so long to get back to this. Spoiler: I still think it's just Martin.
DeleteYou note some of the many times when the two two sax lines diverge slightly. Most of the double-sax riffs are played in unison, in what (I think) is called parallel harmony: the melodies/riffs are the same, but one is audibly a couple of notes below the other (something a pianist could easily do with two hands, but not a horn player). Sometimes one sax sustains a note while the other sax plays something else: I think this is Martin blowing into both horns and (to put it simply) moving the keys on one horn while keeping his fingers still on the other horn. Occasionally the saxes play entirely different things (pretty limited, but still clearly different), but this could be done by a more accomplished player. Full disclosure: I played saxophone (alto, then baritone) for almost 10 years in school and, while I was firmly a 2nd chair player (i.e. not the best), I did indeed try blowing two saxes at the same time (as did every other kid in the sax section). I'm sure I sounded awful, but I think a professional-caliber saxophonist could practice this technique a bit with two saxes and pull off what Martin plays here.
I agree that the horn lines in the 2nd set are very simple and that any horn player able to get on the bandstand would be able to duplicate them. But are also irregular enough that I am still having a hard time believing that an impromptu guest would be able to mirror nearly every single thing that Martin plays. Every figure that Martin plays fits the music just fine, but there's no strict arrangement: he's just playing it as it comes, but that 2nd horn is there with him every single time, and with the exact same phrasing (another thing that an impromptu guest, even a pro, wouldn't nail every single time). For example: at 14:28 in THTC *both* horns make the exact same teeny mistake of not quite hitting the turnaround after Jerry sings the last line of the chorus. Or, at the very ending of THTC around 16:15, both horns play a figure that must have been made up on the spot: it's definitely not something Martin did every time and it just sounds like a spontaneous little thing he would play at the extended outro/finale of the tune: but they both play the exact same figure. That would be telepathic.
When Martin does takes a proper solo (e.g. in Think), the second sax disappears rather than playing little supportive figures underneath him. All of the solos sound like Martin to me. If a second horn player was soloing, there would also probably be a moment of quick (or not-so-quick) mix adjustment by the soundman, since not all horn players blow as hard/loud as others, or a moment where the second saxophonist is moving closer to the mic, or something other audible thing like that. But none of that happens. When Martin switches to flute, the second sax disappears completely. I do hear some low notes in Mystery Train, but the timbre doesn't sound like bari sax to me.
I concede there there is one moment, at 16:45 in My Funny Valentine, when I doubt myself and think that could be two separate horn players... but it could also still be one player with two horns, so I'm still not convinced. I still think it's Martin playing two saxes at once.
Any sax players out there?
Awesome - thank you so much for your detailed and knowledgeable response. One other piece of convergent validation is that Ed Perlstein didn't notice a second player, and thinks he probably would have. Now, he didn't notice Martin playing two horns, either, but that might not jump out to the eye the same way. As of now, I am certainly prepared to buy the Martin w/ Martin thesis.
DeleteSome really good listening and sleuthing up in this post. This is a really great performance; thanks for writing it up. My thought after listening to most of the recording on yt is that it could be Martin playing two horns at once in tribute to Rahsaan Roland Kirk, especially with Martin's Kirkean scat singing while playing flute on La-La.
ReplyDeleteTo my ears, it sounds like Martin could've been playing two horns because the secondary horn lines are less complex, which would be consistent with playing two saxes at once, with a simpler melody played on the second horn with his other hand. I saw Martin play dozens of times and never saw him play more than one sax at a time, but given that the taper didn't remember two players, it seemed possible that Martin doubled up at this show.
So I asked my friend, who is a professional saxophonist (who also saw/heard Jerry Garcia et al live many times in his youth), to listen to the recording and let me know if he thought it was just Martin or if he thinks it was two players and this is his response--hope it's helpful:
"Sounds like two players to me.The giveaway is that the release is not right together on some notes, which is a common stumble in horn sections that haven't practiced together a whole lot.
I'll listen one more time to confirm my opinion...
Yeah, on second listen I'd have to say, definitely two players...
Love that Jerry/Merl time. Brings me back to the Keystone in Berkeley--
some of my favorite shows ever...."